Author Topic: Lupin Series 1: New viability for an American following?  (Read 5113 times)

GATSU

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Lupin Series 1: New viability for an American following?
« on: August 17, 2011, 04:37:36 pm »
Nothing new. Anime Nation Ask John just tackles Lupin's American viability via the first series.

SSJ3_Goku345

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Re: Lupin Series 1: New viability for an American following?
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2011, 05:11:43 pm »
Nothing new. Anime Nation Ask John just tackles Lupin's American viability via the first series.
Well, there´s nothing bad about it. It would be a miracle if the first series gets lots of fans, while I think that Lupin can have more thanks to this series´release.

RedTail

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Re: Lupin Series 1: New viability for an American following?
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2011, 10:24:33 pm »
Lupin is never going to be big here, but that doesn't mean the first series can't be successful.  It all just depends on how you define success.  Obviously if Discotek didn't spend too much on the license and they can garner enough interest from older fans who appreciate vintage anime, that might be enough help them turn a profit.  If they can tap into Miyazaki's fanbase and draw a few extra sales from some of his curious fans, all the better.  That's probably the best case scenario.

IMO, I honestly believe this is Lupin's last chance at ANY sort of success in the US.  If this show doesn't sell well, I find it hard to envision a scenario where another Lupin title gets licensed again.  Discotek is taking a significant risk here putting out a 40-year-old television series from a franchise that the rest of the industry seems to consider almost toxic at this point.

Geist_MD

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Re: Lupin Series 1: New viability for an American following?
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2011, 09:01:06 pm »
I don't know where to start with how wrong this guy is, but there's someone who replied comments to the Ask John fella that I just thought was egregious enough to repost. Enjoy!

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“Viewers with a fondness for vintage anime may appreciate that historic design style, but it’s absolutely anathema to viewers used to and preferential to contemporary anime.”

Well, the Black Jack manga is only a few years older than green jacket, and viewers seem to be fine with it…

“Americans fascinated by the throwback vibe of a popular TV program like Madmen are unlikely to be viewers eager to watch an actual 40 year-old foreign cartoon.”

They kinda did with that X-Men prequel. ^_-

“While this summer’s Fast Five movie may have made the heist film relevant to contemporary American youth, those American teens are also unlikely to be interested in watching a dated, poorly animated anime series that they associate with their grandparents’ generation.”

Well, Hanna Barbera stuff stil sells…

“J.J. Abrams’ 2009 Star Trek film didn’t send a new generation of curious fans hurridly back to the original 1966 television series to discover its roots. ”

Perhaps not immediately, but they probably at least checked out the more recent Trek shows, at least.
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FilmmakerJ

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Re: Lupin Series 1: New viability for an American following?
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2011, 10:59:55 pm »
I don't know where to start with how wrong this guy is, but there's someone who replied comments to the Ask John fella that I just thought was egregious enough to repost. Enjoy!

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“Viewers with a fondness for vintage anime may appreciate that historic design style, but it’s absolutely anathema to viewers used to and preferential to contemporary anime.”

Well, the Black Jack manga is only a few years older than green jacket, and viewers seem to be fine with it…

“Americans fascinated by the throwback vibe of a popular TV program like Madmen are unlikely to be viewers eager to watch an actual 40 year-old foreign cartoon.”

They kinda did with that X-Men prequel. ^_-

“While this summer’s Fast Five movie may have made the heist film relevant to contemporary American youth, those American teens are also unlikely to be interested in watching a dated, poorly animated anime series that they associate with their grandparents’ generation.”

Well, Hanna Barbera stuff stil sells…

“J.J. Abrams’ 2009 Star Trek film didn’t send a new generation of curious fans hurridly back to the original 1966 television series to discover its roots. ”

Perhaps not immediately, but they probably at least checked out the more recent Trek shows, at least.

Okay WTF!

This guy is clearly trying to make a point, but he's bouncing back and forth all throughout the friggin' thing. Are people going back and checking out some older shows, or aren't they?! If you say they aren't checking out older shows, but then say "well they're checking out this older show, I guess," THEN THEY'RE FREAKING CHECKING OUT OLDER SHOWS! It shouldn't matter which shows they are. They either are, or they aren't.

The basic point, I guess, that he's trying to make here, is one that me and my grandmother have been talking about recently; and that's that most kids these days are not properly exposed to the old classic movies and TV shows like kids were back in the 70s and early 80s. And they could really care less, and in turn they have no respect for their history. Now the only way you can see classic films from the Golden Age of Hollywood is to watch TCM (Tuner Classic Movie), commercial free I might add. Or to rent such films through the wonderful Netflix service. But either way, you'll be damned if you can find TCM without one of those channel guides in the middle of 500 channels, and not everyone is paying $30 bucks a month to rent 2 DVDs every once in a while.

I don't know what it is about old movies that makes people think they are not important anymore, or that they look stupid, or that slow movies are boring. And I believe that old movies would sell better, if the people who care about them actually exposed them to their kids at an early enough age, that they might equally care about old titles as much as new ones; like I do.

But back to the subject of Lupin the 3rd. Yes. It is probably true that only us loyal fans, maybe even just the couple hundred to a thousand of you here on this very forum, are the only ones who will be pre-ordering or purchasing this Green Jacket DVD collection. And we're not really asking "kids" to pop up and buy it, or their parents to buy this obscure 1971 anime for them.

I'm sensing that we simply wish the big anime fans open their eyes to something that is extremely pop culture to Japanese people, and therefore it might be a good idea for hardcore Otakus to give a looksie. Cause if you are a hardcore Otaku, you probably want to see all the big major titles of Japanese cinema and television: like Astroboy, Doremon, Heidi, Space Battleship Yamato, Evangelion, Gundam, Cowboy Bebop, etc. And if one is looking at all the big name, historical titles, one should probably also pick up the Lupin the 3rd Green Jacket, and Red Jacket (Part I and Part II) series. Because even to this very day they are making new Lupin titles and re-releasing the old ones. Lupin the 3rd is as popular as "Star Trek," as popular as "NCIS," as popular as "The Cosby Show," or any other TV show that everyone and their great uncle knows about.

So if Lupin is so freaking big for Japanese people, then why aren't more big Otakus checking it out?

GATSU

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Re: Lupin Series 1: New viability for an American following?
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2011, 03:20:21 am »
I dunno. People say older names don't sell, but that new Apes movie did pretty damned well this last month, while a friggin' Woody Allen movie is currently his biggest hit in his career. And the former was initially considered a likely loser at the box office. So I don't think younger viewers are given enough credit on their interest in older media. And for a series as dated as Lupin to even have the initial steam it did in the U.S. in the early 2000s is pretty damned impressive, considering that most hardcore fans were happy just landing Cagliostro on DVD. Could Lupin do better here? Of course it could. But can you name any other "niche" anime franchise which has at least sustained itself enough in the last decade to justify an American licensor's attempt to reintroduce it into the American market? Mobile Suit Gundam and Fist of the North Star are about it. And that's actually not bad, considering their animation sometimes comes off even more dated than in Lupin, even though they're more recent. So I really think, that, if marketed correctly off of a more popular similar period show like Mad Men, Lupin could cross over a bit more with a wider audience. So I hope Reed and Discotek cope up with a good knock-off cover. BTW, that column chose not to use my question about how the current class resentment of banks and Wall Street might actually make Lupin more in tune with the zeitgeist than when they first tried to sell it over here.  :( Brett Ratner's at least cashing in on that possibility with Tower Heist, anyway. Anyway, I guess this convo will have to be spun into its own "viability of Green Jacket" thread or something.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2011, 03:22:29 am by GATSU »

sprak

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Re: Lupin Series 1: New viability for an American following?
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2011, 07:45:59 am »
The basic point, I guess, that he's trying to make here, is one that me and my grandmother have been talking about recently; and that's that most kids these days are not properly exposed to the old classic movies and TV shows like kids were back in the 70s and early 80s.

Too broad of a brush there; the experiences your grandmother (and possibly you) in the 70s and 80s may not have been commonplace. While I grew up in the 70s/80s, my exposure to classic movies and TV was limited. My grandparents were more into music and exposed me more to classic jazz, big band, and such. TV wasn't as voluminous as it is now, so reruns of old shows were limited, at least in my neck o' the woods (YMMV). Wasn't until Nick at Nite came about in the (mid/late? too lazy to look it up right now) 80s that I even heard of shows like Dobie Gillis and learned Gilligan had a career before the Island.


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I don't know what it is about old movies that makes people think they are not important anymore, or that they look stupid, or that slow movies are boring. And I believe that old movies would sell better, if the people who care about them actually exposed them to their kids at an early enough age, that they might equally care about old titles as much as new ones; like I do.

The key in your statement is might equally care; no guarantees that exposing your child to what you enjoy means they will in turn enjoy it. With any art form, it finds its audience across the generations, but the inevitable fact is that the audience will dwindle over time.


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So if Lupin is so freaking big for Japanese people, then why aren't more big Otakus checking it out?

Because you are defining "Otaku" as "someone who wants to explore everything the Japanese are into"; I would wager most US fans currently define it as "really, really into anime" where anime = the hot shows being released now. Both are equally valid interpretations.

sprak

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Re: Lupin Series 1: New viability for an American following?
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2011, 08:14:43 am »
Geist... I see what you did there...


I dunno. People say older names don't sell, but that new Apes movie did pretty damned well this last month,

But did people go see it because they were familiar with the Apes franchise, or did they see it because it looked like a cool action film starring James Franco? I would wager there are people in both camps though the numbers would skew heavily to the action/Franco combo camp.


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while a friggin' Woody Allen movie is currently his biggest hit in his career.

OK, hands up people; who knew that Woody Allen even had a new movie out? And how big of a hit would it be if the numbers were adjusted to reflect the disparity in ticket prices between now and his previous big seller?


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And for a series as dated as Lupin to even have the initial steam it did in the U.S. in the early 2000s is pretty damned impressive, considering that most hardcore fans were happy just landing Cagliostro on DVD.

This I can agree to; I was surprised that there did seem to be a swell in interest for the series here. I think we would differ on the size of that swell, but it did better than I had thought it would.


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Could Lupin do better here? Of course it could. But can you name any other "niche" anime franchise which has at least sustained itself enough in the last decade to justify an American licensor's attempt to reintroduce it into the American market? Mobile Suit Gundam and Fist of the North Star are about it.

I'll throw out Urusei Yatsura and Dragonball. The former because AnimEigo managed to release the whole series after three media changes (VHS > LD > DVD). The later I'm sure could be argued as not a niche title if you hadn't thrown Gundam into the mix. But, you did, so I'll throw out DB for the halibut.


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BTW, that column chose not to use my question about how the current class resentment of banks and Wall Street might actually make Lupin more in tune with the zeitgeist than when they first tried to sell it over here.  :(

Old Man Potter would like to know when hasn't there been resentment of banks and Wall Street? And given that Lupin isn't exactly stealing to "stick it to the man", how in tune is he exactly? He steals from museums, banks, anywhere that has a bit of shine that catches his, or rather Fujiko's, eyes.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2011, 08:15:41 am by sprak »

GATSU

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Re: Lupin Series 1: New viability for an American following?
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2011, 09:16:38 am »
sprak:
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or did they see it because it looked like a cool action film starring James Franco?

I guess you could argue that Franco's Oscar flubs prove the old saying about "bad" publicity. But he's still not a draw, and Cowboys and Aliens could've also nearly been interpreted as a "cool" action movie, too.

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OK, hands up people; who knew that Woody Allen even had a new movie out? And how big of a hit would it be if the numbers were adjusted to reflect the disparity in ticket prices between now and his previous big seller?

In an era in which fewer people are going to see movies in general, for 'Paris to do as well as it did is still a pretty good success story, even if you factor in inflation from his other flicks. Not to mention that his older flicks were more likely to be released wider in the beginning and stay in theaters longer than a lot of today's movies.

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I'll throw out Urusei Yatsura and Dragonball.

DB ain't niche. It might not be as huge as Z or GT here, but it's no doubt benefited significantly from its "offspring". Plus, there was that godawful movie from Murdoch which I view as an even bigger crime than his phone-hacking.  :P Moving on, I don't recall the last time UY was reintroduced other than then it first came out on DVD. No streaming, no broadcasting, no thin-packs, nothing, since they put it out on DVD. They didn't even bother cashing in by bringing over that recent Ranma/Inu Yasha cross-over thingy or rescuing Beautiful Dreamer. So I doubt it's been as big consistently lucrative seller for Animeigo as the years went by, or they'd have a reason to renew the license.

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Old Man Potter would like to know when hasn't there been resentment of banks and Wall Street?

Yeah, but they've really been tightening the screws on the little people lately.

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And given that Lupin isn't exactly stealing to "stick it to the man", how in tune is he exactly? He steals from museums, banks, anywhere that has a bit of shine that catches his, or rather Fujiko's, eyes.

Well, that's the point, isn't it? He's flipping off people who just hoard the stuff and give themselves a false sense of security. Sure, he does it partly for Fuji-cakes' sake, but it's still just a game to both of them. And in a way, that approach of conveying little regard for the actual loot could be perceived as payback to rich jerks who play with people's lives.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2011, 09:17:10 am by GATSU »

FilmmakerJ

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Re: Lupin Series 1: New viability for an American following?
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2011, 12:39:02 pm »
The basic point, I guess, that he's trying to make here, is one that me and my grandmother have been talking about recently; and that's that most kids these days are not properly exposed to the old classic movies and TV shows like kids were back in the 70s and early 80s.

Too broad of a brush there; the experiences your grandmother (and possibly you) in the 70s and 80s may not have been commonplace. While I grew up in the 70s/80s, my exposure to classic movies and TV was limited. My grandparents were more into music and exposed me more to classic jazz, big band, and such. TV wasn't as voluminous as it is now, so reruns of old shows were limited, at least in my neck o' the woods (YMMV). Wasn't until Nick at Nite came about in the (mid/late? too lazy to look it up right now) 80s that I even heard of shows like Dobie Gillis and learned Gilligan had a career before the Island.


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I don't know what it is about old movies that makes people think they are not important anymore, or that they look stupid, or that slow movies are boring. And I believe that old movies would sell better, if the people who care about them actually exposed them to their kids at an early enough age, that they might equally care about old titles as much as new ones; like I do.

The key in your statement is might equally care; no guarantees that exposing your child to what you enjoy means they will in turn enjoy it. With any art form, it finds its audience across the generations, but the inevitable fact is that the audience will dwindle over time.


Quote
So if Lupin is so freaking big for Japanese people, then why aren't more big Otakus checking it out?

Because you are defining "Otaku" as "someone who wants to explore everything the Japanese are into"; I would wager most US fans currently define it as "really, really into anime" where anime = the hot shows being released now. Both are equally valid interpretations.

Well first off, I'm only 19. So I will grant you I wasn't even there. But that doesn't mean I don't know what happened.

I have read a few, very detailed accounts that every major Television station, at least in the New York and where ever their particular stations reached to, was broadcasting Hollywood classics regularly every week. They started doing it right when older movies were gaining more movie enthusiasts, and young directors like Spielberg, Scorsese, and Lucas were coming up to bat.

I don't doubt that in your area you barely got any old movies. But they were playing frequently in the New England area. And they probably were also near the other side of the country.

I also think it is totally possible for kids of any age to like stuff that's 40, 50, 80, or 100 years old; if that's all you show them at an early age, or if you gradually show them a little of old and a little of new, and then show them better and better stuff of each. If you, as a parent, purposefully broaden their horizons; then there might be a chance, maybe not a guarantee, but a chance, that they will like what they've seen, and be interested in it.

That's how it was for me. I started watching movies like "Singing in the Rain," "Sound of Music," "Star Wars" the original 3, "The Music Man," "Meet Me in St. Louis," and the original "Planet of the Apes" when I was 6 years old. And I loved them, just as much as I did anything else I was watching that was brand new. This was more because of my mom's influence, and what she experienced in the 70s rather than my grandmother. I had no problem with old fashioned humor, I had no problem with Black-and-White, I had no problem with the slow pace, and I had no problem with the grainy picture.

I think the fact is that if you don't try, then the kids won't care. But if you do try, and give them something else to look at once in a while, maybe they'll develop an interest. Maybe not a movie buff interest, or an interest in movie making, but just an interest in seeing more old films as well as new.

P.S.
And I didn't mean to generalize the Otakus. I know there are all kinds of them. But isn't there some group of Otakus who's goal might be to seek out important titles in history so that they might broaden their understanding of anime? You know, watch all those major titles I mentioned, because they want to see it all?

sprak

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Re: Lupin Series 1: New viability for an American following?
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2011, 01:33:40 pm »
Well first off, I'm only 19. So I will grant you I wasn't even there. But that doesn't mean I don't know what happened.

I always get a good natured chuckle to hear statements like that.


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I have read a few, very detailed accounts that every major Television station, at least in the New York and where ever their particular stations reached to, was broadcasting Hollywood classics regularly every week. They started doing it right when older movies were gaining more movie enthusiasts, and young directors like Spielberg, Scorsese, and Lucas were coming up to bat.

I don't doubt that in your area you barely got any old movies. But they were playing frequently in the New England area. And they probably were also near the other side of the country.

That was what I was pointing out; your brush was too broad. I'm sure there were plenty of TV stations playing classics in the major markets. However, TV stations showing classics is not the same as kids being exposed to them.  Your original statement was "that most kids these days are not properly exposed to the old classic movies and TV shows like kids were back in the 70s and early 80s." From my own experience, even if it was on, my parents/grandparents were not interested in watching classic films unless it was one they especially liked.

My wife and her older brother had a different experience; their aunt is a film buff and did watch older films with them. And there are people along the entire spectrum. The material may have been there, is still here, but saying one generation was exposed to it more than other...


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I also think it is totally possible for kids of any age to like stuff that's 40, 50, 80, or 100 years old;

This is not in dispute. It is possible for anyone to gain an appreciation of something regardless of its age or theirs.


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I think the fact is that if you don't try, then the kids won't care. But if you do try, and give them something else to look at once in a while, maybe they'll develop an interest. Maybe not a movie buff interest, or an interest in movie making, but just an interest in seeing more old films as well as new.

No argument here; worth a shot but no guarantee that it will stick.


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And I didn't mean to generalize the Otakus. I know there are all kinds of them. But isn't there some group of Otakus who's goal might be to seek out important titles in history so that they might broaden their understanding of anime? You know, watch all those major titles I mentioned, because they want to see it all?

Of course there are, but they are the niche within the niche within the niche. It takes the truly dedicated to track down some of the older classics, and not everyone who wants to has the time/money to do so.

sprak

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Re: Lupin Series 1: New viability for an American following?
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2011, 01:52:28 pm »
I guess you could argue that Franco's Oscar flubs prove the old saying about "bad" publicity. But he's still not a draw, and Cowboys and Aliens could've also nearly been interpreted as a "cool" action movie, too.

I know far too many people who would argue that Franco is still a draw to them. YMMV.

And the rule is that Apes always trump aliens; apes are much cuter.


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In an era in which fewer people are going to see movies in general, for 'Paris to do as well as it did is still a pretty good success story, even if you factor in inflation from his other flicks. Not to mention that his older flicks were more likely to be released wider in the beginning and stay in theaters longer than a lot of today's movies.

I don't doubt that it is a success after a fashion; however, Allen has a built in audience much like Kevin Smith that will always go to his films. Once they've run through it, now or then, any length of time in the theater after that is trying to squeeze one last ounce out of the stone. The question I have is if the numbers now reflect an upswing in the size of that audience or just that the audience that was there is paying higher ticket prices. I don't have the numbers to support either conclusion.


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DB ain't niche.

Neither is your original example of Gundam as a niche title. If you get to claim Gundam as a niche title that sells through here still, I get to claim DB. Goose meet the gander; it's all good...


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Plus, there was that godawful movie from Murdoch which I view as an even bigger crime than his phone-hacking.  :P

I realize there is some level of sarcasm in this statement, but it is statements like these that do not help your case when it comes to an actual dialogue.


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I don't recall the last time UY was reintroduced other than then it first came out on DVD.

The audience that was there to buy it did buy it; UY's time came and went much like Tenchi and other early "big hit" titles for fandom. What was remarkable was there was a large enough audience to keep AnimEigo willing to put out the entire series. Woodhead's desire to do something so monumental may have been a factor, but he's an astute enough businessman to not throw money away on a pure vanity project.


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Yeah, but they've really been tightening the screws on the little people lately.

This headline a repeat from... sheesh, pick a year, any year.


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Well, that's the point, isn't it? He's flipping off people who just hoard the stuff and give themselves a false sense of security. Sure, he does it partly for Fuji-cakes' sake, but it's still just a game to both of them. And in a way, that approach of conveying little regard for the actual loot could be perceived as payback to rich jerks who play with people's lives.

It could be perceived that way, but why try to force market Lupin one way or the other? Why not simply market it for what it is; a light hearted comedy/action series. Let it sell on it own merits rather than try to shoe horn it into something "appropriate for the times".
« Last Edit: August 21, 2011, 01:53:03 pm by sprak »

FilmmakerJ

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Re: Lupin Series 1: New viability for an American following?
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2011, 02:16:54 pm »
Well first off, I'm only 19. So I will grant you I wasn't even there. But that doesn't mean I don't know what happened.

I always get a good natured chuckle to hear statements like that.


Quote
I have read a few, very detailed accounts that every major Television station, at least in the New York and where ever their particular stations reached to, was broadcasting Hollywood classics regularly every week. They started doing it right when older movies were gaining more movie enthusiasts, and young directors like Spielberg, Scorsese, and Lucas were coming up to bat.

I don't doubt that in your area you barely got any old movies. But they were playing frequently in the New England area. And they probably were also near the other side of the country.

That was what I was pointing out; your brush was too broad. I'm sure there were plenty of TV stations playing classics in the major markets. However, TV stations showing classics is not the same as kids being exposed to them.  Your original statement was "that most kids these days are not properly exposed to the old classic movies and TV shows like kids were back in the 70s and early 80s." From my own experience, even if it was on, my parents/grandparents were not interested in watching classic films unless it was one they especially liked.

My wife and her older brother had a different experience; their aunt is a film buff and did watch older films with them. And there are people along the entire spectrum. The material may have been there, is still here, but saying one generation was exposed to it more than other...


Quote
I also think it is totally possible for kids of any age to like stuff that's 40, 50, 80, or 100 years old;

This is not in dispute. It is possible for anyone to gain an appreciation of something regardless of its age or theirs.


Quote
I think the fact is that if you don't try, then the kids won't care. But if you do try, and give them something else to look at once in a while, maybe they'll develop an interest. Maybe not a movie buff interest, or an interest in movie making, but just an interest in seeing more old films as well as new.

No argument here; worth a shot but no guarantee that it will stick.


Quote
And I didn't mean to generalize the Otakus. I know there are all kinds of them. But isn't there some group of Otakus who's goal might be to seek out important titles in history so that they might broaden their understanding of anime? You know, watch all those major titles I mentioned, because they want to see it all?

Of course there are, but they are the niche within the niche within the niche. It takes the truly dedicated to track down some of the older classics, and not everyone who wants to has the time/money to do so.

Alright, well if I have been making a bunch of generalizations, I do apologize. I am just so freaking annoyed that more and more people don't give a damn about old movies, even movies from the 80s, anymore.

People need to stop living in the moment and learn from the past, learn where they came from. It is vital to our society, it is important to our culture, and above all, it make us less ignorant. Music, Movies, and Art alike are important to learn about. And if nothing else, schools need to do a better job of covering these areas. Anything else in history you're not really going to use to any ends later in life, right?

I mean schools say that math, science, and reading and writing are important to learn because you will come across situations where knowing how to do these things will be useful. But when the hell are you ever going to need to pull back out a fact about World War II, the Mongol period, or feudal Europe again, except on a gameshow. I do believe that learning the main events in history is important, but it doesn't need to be all you learn. Schools should emphasize things that you can actually learn values from, learn concepts from, things that one can build upon for the betterment of the future. And things like movies, art, and music can help in this.

I think that's all I'll say in the matter. We should all get back to the Green Jacket release.

And I promise that I will think carefully, and check some sources before accidentally making any more generalized statements. I do apologize Sprak.

GATSU

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Re: Lupin Series 1: New viability for an American following?
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2011, 07:37:29 pm »
sprak:
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I don't doubt that it is a success after a fashion; however, Allen has a built in audience much like Kevin Smith that will always go to his films.

No comparison. Allen's got enough cred to get prominent names on his projects and cross over with casual viewers who don't normally like "smart" movies. K.S. has been making the same "Wouldn't it be cool if stoned fanboys directed this?" genre movie since Mallrats. And even Smith knows it at this point, which is why he's intentionally turning away people who are complaining about 3D ticket prices with Red State's insane fees. In other words, he's exclusively catering to the hardcore fans, and not even bothering with the casual ones. I guess you could call him the domestic answer to Bandai Visual U.S.A.?  :P That's why I prefer to compare Lupin to Allen. Because they're both in similar boats. They've always had American followings. But they were generally considered inaccessible and/or highbrow for regular audiences until they just happened to be at the right place to fill a void. In Allen's case, it was the lack of movies which didn't treat you like a moron or talk down to you; in Lupin's case, it's no doubt an antidote to all that emo/moe crap which substitutes for anime, which they're shoving down our throats.

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The question I have is if the numbers now reflect an upswing in the size of that audience or just that the audience that was there is paying higher ticket prices.

They're  no doubt a factor in 'Paris's success, but then Pirates of the Caribbean 4 did worse than the previous films, when it should've benefited from higher ticket prices.

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Neither is your original example of Gundam as a niche title.

The newer Gundams are not niche. But everything up until Wing is a different story. And even then, Turn A and X are still considered as "risky" to release as Zeta. Nonetheless, there is enough American fan interest in Gundam for Bandai to start from the drawing board on older titles in the franchise. But that's the point. Even though the newer titles are what sell, they help re-introduce new people into Gundam as a whole, which is niche. It's not like DB and Z which, in previous years, would've only been embraced for the latter series. People have now accepted the original as part and parcel of the experience. That phenomenon clearly hasn't happened with Gundam yet, but it's getting there. That's why I compared it to Lupin.

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The audience that was there to buy it did buy it; UY's time came and went much like Tenchi and other early "big hit" titles for fandom.

FUNi's still re-issuing Tenchi. Animeigo pretty much stopped caring about UY once it offloaded the box-sets.

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What was remarkable was there was a large enough audience to keep AnimEigo willing to put out the entire series.

Well, you have to take into account the anime bubble, the stronger economy[You have to remember that this was an era when people were willing to pay $200 for a Fushigi Yugi boxset and $80 OAVs!], and the opportune time for newbs just getting into Inu Yasha and Ranma to look into UY. But yeah, for a "classic" show which was beginning to show its age only a decade later, it's quite an accomplishment. Even Maison Ikkoku, which had better production values, has never been able to succeed as well for Viz as UY did for Animeigo. But then that just proves my point that Lupin can find a larger audience, too, if properly introduced. 

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This headline a repeat from... sheesh, pick a year, any year.

How about lobbying against collective bargaining and foreclosing on vets?

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Why not simply market it for what it is; a light hearted comedy/action series. Let it sell on it own merits rather than try to shoe horn it into something "appropriate for the times".

Perhaps, but as I noted on Twitter, I found it highly appropriate that Manga chose to stream Cagliostro, a movie about fake money, at this very moment in time.  ;D So it's good to embrace zeitgeists once in a while.  ;)

sprak

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Re: Lupin Series 1: New viability for an American following?
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2011, 02:52:17 pm »
They're  no doubt a factor in 'Paris's success, but then Pirates of the Caribbean 4 did worse than the previous films, when it should've benefited from higher ticket prices.

Only if people wanted to go see it; I can say my enthusiasm for the fourth film was next to nil after how 2 & 3 ended up. They were OK films but a let down in terms of good storytelling.


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The newer Gundams are not niche. But everything up until Wing is a different story.

We'll have to differ on this; I think Gundam has always had a following and always will. Too much merchandising power...


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FUNi's still re-issuing Tenchi.

They are? Missed that announcement. Real question is if anyone still cares... Doubt it has the drawing power it had back in the initial VHS/LD US release days.


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How about lobbying against collective bargaining and foreclosing on vets?

How about it? Again, when haven't they done this? This is what banks do; they foreclose on people regardless of who they are or what they have done. But this is getting far afield of the actual discussion...