Author Topic: EXCLUSIVE:Discotek licenses "Mamo," plans to include all 4 English dubs!  (Read 25882 times)

djmasturbeat

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Yes please! I want all four dubs. Awesomesauce.

Has any foreign production or anime had this many English dubs?

On top of that, does anyone know if Lupin holds the prize for the most dub actors and dubbing teams playing the same characters in a single language?

Mamo actually holds the place as having the...second amount of most english dubs of all time. Dragon Ball beats it out by having 6 different ones.

He may hold that second prize though for sure.

the first Lupin movie (aka Mamo/Cone) has a LOT of dubs besides 4 in English.  To my recollection there are atleast 4 in Italian, just like English, to say nothing of the other language's dubs.

here is an Italian-language site akin to this site with some details (best viewed in Chrome if you don't know Italian):
http://www.lupinthe3rd.net/files/anime/info/film-01.htm


I really do hope for this to make it to BD.  As mentioned in the newslink in first post, the Japanese Mamo BD doesn't suffer like the first series JPN BDs, it is quite a nice 1080p transfer .
(I should also mention that I have no copies of the Series 1 BDs, though understand they are problematic, I do know firsthand that the JPN Cagliostro BD is chock-full of crap, looking like it is a crappily deinterlaced composite video master source, full of poorly blended frames, then interlaced again to to try to mask this botchery, and encoded with pulldown at 29.97 fps rather than the native 24/23.976 making more of a mess of it  -- so anyone hoping for a good US Cagliostro BD needs to understand the quality of the JPN release first).

But again, Mamo apparently has a good source that was used for the Jpn BD, so no reason this couldn't be used for the US release.  Better to put all 4 dubs on a  BD anyway, rather than cram them all on a single DVD.  It can fit a DVD, but the bitrate of the audio and video will both suffer (due to bitrate max limitations of about 10 Mbps, all tracks combined incl subs, cannot spike over this max). 
For DVD release, I like the idea of having this on 2 DVDs, half the dubs on each, and maybe Jpn 5.1 on one and Jpn Stereo on the other, so that each audio track can be higher bitrate AC3 and also not have to compress the living crap out of that video.  I doubt it will happen, but it would be nice. Or again, better yet, go for the BD.  At this point the only dub I don't have on DVD is the Toho dub (but that old R1 by Image Ent which features the Streamline dub has some of the worst video ever, even by early US anime DVD standards).  If Discotek doesn't release a BD, I will eventually make my own custom BD with all the dubs (I already had it planned, hence having all the other DVDs, including the Italian DVD with the edited TOHO/JAL dub), but they could sure save me the time :P  Having small kids I hardly ever get to do these things like I want, and I have to wait on BD projects anyway till I get a new HDD and can reinstall Windows and Scenarist BD.  At this point it would be easier to just buy the BD ;) (HINT) Plus a BD could support a commentary track or three and have all the audio in lossless as well as 1080p video at a decently high bitrate (even if they put it on a single layer disc it will still be a considerable improvement).

Fujiko: You didn't get the Geneon one when it came out? It's been in print, or at least cheaply available used, for a while now.

Well I bought mine late in 2010. It's almost completely out of print now unless you can find it on a lesser known dvd or garage sale type site.

However, Ebay does have a few dozen copies of the UK print of the film, which I bought, and it has the Geneon dub. Which is bad for me cause I thought I was getting the UK dub, but (it was) good for you in case you wanted that version. And you can play it on your computer with VLC player if you have the right drivers I believe.

Now, thank goodness, we won't have to deal with all that anymore. For the second time I've ever seen it done, we are getting something with more than one English produced dub. The only other time I know this has been done is with the recent re-release of the Dirty Pair movies, where they had the original Streamline and ADV dubs. So that was kinda cool. Now to have a movie with four English dubs, one of which is the UK dub, that's gotta be unprecidented. Cause only us die-hard fans would care to watch a movie four times to hear all four casts of actors.  :P ;D

There have been several I can think of that have had more than one dub.  Akra was released on DVD in UK and AU/NZ with both dubs.  Some Gall Force had more than one dub.  More are around I can't think of.  But this is fairly unprecedented having 4 dubs (altho the notion of 4 distinct dubs in one language for one film is pretty unusual).

That Piioneer/Geneon DVD is actually kind of pricey now.  You can actually get the even older R1 by Image for cheap now (while the Geneon was in print, that Image Ent DVD was spendy as hell as i recall -- but now there is no reason to get it, since the Streamline dub was the only reason to get it).
« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 10:27:45 am by djmasturbeat »

victorystar

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But guy we were talking about ENGLISH DUBS  :P I know there are way more dubs than just those 4 in other languages (like the Italian version which I heard is pretty good because people there love Lupin and a Spanish dub too). But we weren't talking about all the other dubs. Just English.

FilmmakerJ

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But guy we were talking about ENGLISH DUBS  :P I know there are way more dubs than just those 4 in other languages (like the Italian version which I heard is pretty good because people there love Lupin and a Spanish dub too). But we weren't talking about all the other dubs. Just English.

Yeah, I kind of expected us all to know that of course there were dubs in other countries for each of these films, but most movies don't get more than one dub in one language, and I thought Lupin III "The Secret of Mamo" might hold some sort of record for having the most alternate dubs in the same country, in the same language. However, I was also including the UK and maybe Australia if they also were English as their primary language. So then there would be 4 or 5.

Cliff

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I noticed on the front page of this site that the main source of the audio is an edited Italian DVD. Why does the Italian DVD have the JAL dub on it?

I'm not entirely sure of that myself, but it was a disappointment when I received it.  When news of the DVD's release hit, I had a friend in Italy purchase the DVD for me and send it to me in the US.  This was not the retail copy of the DVD (the retail Italian disc does *not* have the English dub), it was the "newsstand edition".  I'm not sure entirely what that means, but I can only guess it's a version sold on newsstands, and possibly cheaper/edited/etc for that reason.  Anyway, I had him grab it for me because I wasn't sure how long a "newsstand edition" would be available. 

When I received it, I found that the film had the 1978 English soundtrack as advertised, but the film was edited so the soundtrack was not complete.  On top of that, the film had been converted to PAL.  There are many ways to do conversions, but they chose the method that makes the film play faster than intended.  This distorts the audio pitch.  For an extra slap in the face, the edited scenes were available in an "extras" menu, but these only had the Italian soundtrack, not the English dub.  :(  (Why edit the film at all if you then include the edits in an extras menu?!  This totally baffled me) 

So, I restored the speed of the soundtrack to it's correct tempo/pitch, and aligned it to the JP "theatrical box" DVD.  I then needed to fill in the gaps.  I did this by using a mixture of audio clips from the Swedish Walthers video VHS and the bootleg VHS recorded at the C/FO screening.  The audio on the DVD isn't perfect, but it is the clearest source available, so my goal was to match the Walthers and C/FO clips to the DVD source (rather than try to make them perfect).  I've yet to screen my work for anyone who can hear a difference before I point it out.  :) 

As for the 1996 manga UK dub, this was a much easier restoration.  I captured that myself from the UK VHS tape.  It had the same speed-up/pitch issue that the Italian DVD had, but once I restored it, the actors sounded exactly like they do on the Cagliostro DVD. 

These 2 restorations (among others) were done for an educational/historical project I just recently completed called "Lupin III: The Original Motion Picture Archive", which is a DVD that allows you to watch the film 11 different ways.  Japanese with or without subtitles, and all 4 dubs.  Each dub then allows you to choose to watch it with the original Japanese video, or it's corresponding original presentation(s), such as credit overlays, edited labels, etc, for a total of 11 versions.  I was able to do this by utilizing alternate angles which seamlessly change as you watch the film, depending on which menu option you choose. Unfortunately, alternate angle playback is not supported with all players, such as VLC, but it does allow you to switch between versions on-the-fly. 

My project disc was screened at the C/FO's anniversary party 2 months ago, and I'm considering another screening this weekend at California Extreme for Cliff Hanger fans.  If you're planning on attending and would like to see it, let me know...  it probably won't be advertised, but will be a private thing in a hotel room. 

Lastly, I should clarify this is *not* Discotek's disc.  I've simply provided them with the source files for my audio remasters, which they are going to use for *their* disc.  I'm as excited to see what they release as you are! 

Other Lupin project restoration discs I've done are Goodbye Lady Liberty with English subs/dub and Lupin VIII, which has now been made obsolete by the excellent Master File Blu Ray.  I'll be working on Cagliostro next. 

For those of you who don't know me, hi.  I'm one of the old schoolers who doesn't post much anymore but keeps in touch with the other fogeys. 

GATSU

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Cliff: You sound like a real pro. Dunno if it's possible, but it'd be cool if you could unearth those legendary Geneon red jacket ghost dubs we keep hearing about, but can never confirm.

FilmmakerJ

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I noticed on the front page of this site that the main source of the audio is an edited Italian DVD. Why does the Italian DVD have the JAL dub on it?

I'm not entirely sure of that myself, but it was a disappointment when I received it.  When news of the DVD's release hit, I had a friend in Italy purchase the DVD for me and send it to me in the US.  This was not the retail copy of the DVD (the retail Italian disc does *not* have the English dub), it was the "newsstand edition".  I'm not sure entirely what that means, but I can only guess it's a version sold on newsstands, and possibly cheaper/edited/etc for that reason.  Anyway, I had him grab it for me because I wasn't sure how long a "newsstand edition" would be available. 

When I received it, I found that the film had the 1978 English soundtrack as advertised, but the film was edited so the soundtrack was not complete.  On top of that, the film had been converted to PAL.  There are many ways to do conversions, but they chose the method that makes the film play faster than intended.  This distorts the audio pitch.  For an extra slap in the face, the edited scenes were available in an "extras" menu, but these only had the Italian soundtrack, not the English dub.  :(  (Why edit the film at all if you then include the edits in an extras menu?!  This totally baffled me) 

So, I restored the speed of the soundtrack to it's correct tempo/pitch, and aligned it to the JP "theatrical box" DVD.  I then needed to fill in the gaps.  I did this by using a mixture of audio clips from the Swedish Walthers video VHS and the bootleg VHS recorded at the C/FO screening.  The audio on the DVD isn't perfect, but it is the clearest source available, so my goal was to match the Walthers and C/FO clips to the DVD source (rather than try to make them perfect).  I've yet to screen my work for anyone who can hear a difference before I point it out.  :) 

As for the 1996 manga UK dub, this was a much easier restoration.  I captured that myself from the UK VHS tape.  It had the same speed-up/pitch issue that the Italian DVD had, but once I restored it, the actors sounded exactly like they do on the Cagliostro DVD. 

These 2 restorations (among others) were done for an educational/historical project I just recently completed called "Lupin III: The Original Motion Picture Archive", which is a DVD that allows you to watch the film 11 different ways.  Japanese with or without subtitles, and all 4 dubs.  Each dub then allows you to choose to watch it with the original Japanese video, or it's corresponding original presentation(s), such as credit overlays, edited labels, etc, for a total of 11 versions.  I was able to do this by utilizing alternate angles which seamlessly change as you watch the film, depending on which menu option you choose. Unfortunately, alternate angle playback is not supported with all players, such as VLC, but it does allow you to switch between versions on-the-fly. 

My project disc was screened at the C/FO's anniversary party 2 months ago, and I'm considering another screening this weekend at California Extreme for Cliff Hanger fans.  If you're planning on attending and would like to see it, let me know...  it probably won't be advertised, but will be a private thing in a hotel room. 

Lastly, I should clarify this is *not* Discotek's disc.  I've simply provided them with the source files for my audio remasters, which they are going to use for *their* disc.  I'm as excited to see what they release as you are! 

Other Lupin project restoration discs I've done are Goodbye Lady Liberty with English subs/dub and Lupin VIII, which has now been made obsolete by the excellent Master File Blu Ray.  I'll be working on Cagliostro next. 

For those of you who don't know me, hi.  I'm one of the old schoolers who doesn't post much anymore but keeps in touch with the other fogeys. 

Well paint me Green and Red and call me Wolf.

You have got to be the most awesome and dedicated mediaphile I have ever seen. That is genius to make a DVD experience with every option available for dubs and subs and video transfers.

When I originally found out that Mamo actually had four dubs, it made me crazy to think of when I would ever be able to hear them all. It's so crazy that you were able to rip and paste and transition all of them into one complete package. Let us hope that Discotek can make an equally seamless and interesting presentation with their four dub project. The quality of their Green Jacket DVDs is better than most, and I mean most. So I have faith in their quality. And thank you so much for doing this so that they have the best audio and video files available. =) I always applaud quality over quantity.

Because if the quality sucks, then what's the point of enjoying more than one dub or more than one video transfer if they all have sucky quality? The same goes for party video games.  :P
« Last Edit: July 25, 2012, 02:48:32 am by FilmmakerJ »

Reed

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Well paint me Green and Red and call me Wolf.

You have got to be the most awesome and dedicated mediaphile I have ever seen. That is genius to make a DVD experience with every option available for dubs and subs and video transfers.

When I originally found out that Mamo actually had four dubs, it made me crazy to think of when I would ever be able to hear them all. It's so crazy that you were able to rip and paste and transition all of them into one complete package. Let us hope that Discotek can make an equally seamless and interesting presentation with their four dub project. The quality of their Green Jacket DVDs is better than most, and I mean most. So I have faith in their quality. And thank you so much for doing this so that they have the best audio and video files available. =) I always applaud quality over quantity.

Because if the quality sucks, then what's the point of enjoying more than one dub or more than one video transfer if they all have sucky quality? The same goes for party video games.  :P

He's a good guy, that chap...er chip. Like I said, he deserves a lot of credit for this release.

I imagine that, due to playback challenges and limitations, the otherwise awesome multiple angles feature will likely be dropped by Discotek in favor of keeping just the Japanese uncut video. Because it's funky in a couple of software players, and from what I understand, compatibility is king with retail discs. I presume that the Archive project betas will otherwise be very similar to the final Discotek product. But that's just a guess.
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Cliff

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You have got to be the most awesome and dedicated mediaphile I have ever seen. That is genius to make a DVD experience with every option available for dubs and subs and video transfers.

Thanks!  It's been a crazy amount of work off and on over the years.  But it's also been a lot of fun.  I've done a lot of dub/sub matching on DVDs, but this is by far my most ambitious one yet.  Alternate angles are a major pain, and I can promise I'll never do anything with them again.  :)  (Well, maybe I'll try once more with Cagliostro... hopefully it's easier on Blu Ray)

The same goes for party video games.  :P

I was with you up to this line, and then got really confused.  I'm really curious to hear more about this though, for different reasons.  Are you saying the quality of most party video games sucks? 

He's a good guy, that chap...er chip. Like I said, he deserves a lot of credit for this release.

I imagine that, due to playback challenges and limitations, the otherwise awesome multiple angles feature will likely be dropped by Discotek in favor of keeping just the Japanese uncut video. Because it's funky in a couple of software players, and from what I understand, compatibility is king with retail discs. I presume that the Archive project betas will otherwise be very similar to the final Discotek product. But that's just a guess.

heh, thanks Reed!  You deserve a lot of credit too.  This project has been sitting on my hard drive for literally, no joke, over 10 years now.  I never would have finished it if not for your gentle prodding.  :)  And just to be clear, I wasn't trying to suggest that Discotek should go the alternate angle route.  As cool as it is, I wouldn't recommend this route for a retail release.  Like you said, compatibility is king with retail.  The sad thing is that my Archive disc is 100% compliant with the DVD specification, but many hardware and software players do not fully comply, especially with rarely used features.  (This is why many clips land in the "extras" sections of DVDs that could/should have been alternate angles)

To finish this project, I actually had to resurrect an old computer to get Windows 2000 running, as the DVD authoring software I was using for the project was not officially supported on later versions (and also required a "dongle" be plugged into a parallel port!).  Due to this, i decided to just wrap up my project rather than have to start over yet again to upgrade it to Blu Ray.  However, I'm excited that the most important parts of my work will live on and be easily accessible to all Lupin fans.  I, too, am crossing my fingers that Discotek can pull out a Blu Ray release! 

FilmmakerJ

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The same goes for party video games.  :P

Oh, well recently, I finally realized that there is no real contest over which is better, "Quanity VS Quality."

There's really only one way you can go, Quality is always better. Because if you give me a crap ton of anything: dubs, character skins, party mini-games (like all of the ones they've made for the Nintendo Wii) and other customizable things; and if they all suck, then there's no point. Game and Movie companies can't tell me quantity is better than quality if they give me a crap ton of stuff that all looks and or performs terribly. All that does is make me think it's something good by giving me so many options, but as I go back and forth between a them all, I eventually realize that none of them are worth my time, or my money.

So I just tied in the party games with my comment about the dubs cause it's a big pet peeve that I have lately, lol.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 02:16:19 pm by FilmmakerJ »

FilmmakerJ

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On the plus side, barring anything unexpected, the Discotek DVD should be completely uncut (no weird digital logo recoloring or missing "DC Comics/Clark Bar" ads).

So wait, that means that Discotek now has the rights from TMS and DC comics to show the spoof ad of Lupin with Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman?

And does that also mean that that one scene with Zenigata living as a recluse in the middle of the forest will be in there too, or was that a scene that was never really in the movie, it was just shown in the trailers? Because if that scene was in the original Japanese cut, there wouldn't be any English dialogue for it, which means it would be subtitled, right?

Well that's pretty darn awesome. Was the film actually wider screen than the versions we've gotten previously? And if so, I take it we're going to get the original wide screen cut courtesy of Cliff?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm just so excited because this sure feels like an unprecedented achievement in anime. If Discotek puts this on a Blu-ray release, it's pretty much the most perfect movie release I have ever been witness to. It will be the crown jewel of my collection, even above my "Cagliostro" special edition.  :P ;D

Reed

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The scene is a parody of a Clark Bar ad. I don't think there's any reason it won't be included (TMS is clearly not as paranoid as they once were, since the scene is included on the Hulu version). That said, I doubt any permission from DC Comics was explicitly obtained by either TMS or Discotek at any point in time, not even in 1978.

Unless Discotek decides to change their video source, the video is the same as the Japanese "Theatrical Box" DVD. The Pioneer video is a color-adjusted version of the same source video. The "Lupin the Box" version in Japan also uses the same master, but is more compressed. Across all of them, the aspect ratio (just how wide the "widescreen" is) should be consistent.

The deleted Zenigata scene was removed during production. As far as I know, the animation was never completed.

Would be nice to see a Blu-ray. I'm not holding my breath, but if this DVD sells well enough, who knows?
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GATSU

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Reed:
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That said, I doubt any permission from DC Comics was explicitly obtained by either TMS or Discotek at any point in time, not even in 1978.

That's a parody, so that's sort of the point. Only Weird Al has to do that shit of obtaining permission, because record companies are run greedy assholes. But Japan may not have "fair use" laws like we do, so that's why TMS got skittish the first time around.

Reed

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Reed:
Quote
That said, I doubt any permission from DC Comics was explicitly obtained by either TMS or Discotek at any point in time, not even in 1978.

That's a parody, so that's sort of the point. Only Weird Al has to do that shit of obtaining permission, because record companies are run greedy assholes. But Japan may not have "fair use" laws like we do, so that's why TMS got skittish the first time around.

Parody used to be a lot more acceptable in Japan, until they got a little more sue-happy over there over the last few decades. Listen to the Project A-ko commentary track for more info on this. And Weird Al doesn't HAVE to ask for permission for his parodies, he chooses to. There are any number of musical artists who make much less funny parody songs without incident.
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GATSU

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Re: EXCLUSIVE:Discotek licenses "Mamo," plans to include all 4 English dubs!
« Reply #43 on: August 11, 2012, 01:28:22 am »
Yeah, I recall Nabeshin saying he got complaints over his Excel Saga parodies. They probably got pissed after Daicon, which was borderline copyright infringement.

Edit: Reed just updated LTT with info on essays from Michael Toole and the Liberty Lupin guy as extras.

TheLiberator

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Re: EXCLUSIVE:Discotek licenses "Mamo," plans to include all 4 English dubs!
« Reply #44 on: August 14, 2012, 08:12:05 pm »
Yeah, I recall Nabeshin saying he got complaints over his Excel Saga parodies. They probably got pissed after Daicon, which was borderline copyright infringement.

Edit: Reed just updated LTT with info on essays from Michael Toole and the Liberty Lupin guy as extras.

You mean the famous Daicon IV animation that the founding members of Gainax made? It has never been officially released on home video because of their use of the trademark Playboy Bunny costume.