Author Topic: Castle of Cagliostro - Streamline Dub Ending  (Read 10982 times)

angelidollinda

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Castle of Cagliostro - Streamline Dub Ending
« on: March 18, 2009, 03:54:41 pm »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbVlTFu9IyY

The infamous ending of Castle of Cagliostro, the Streamline dubbed version.

(click to show/hide)
Les temps sont durs pour les r

Sad cactus

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Re: Castle of Cagliostro - Streamline Dub Ending
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2009, 04:29:02 pm »
Yay, that's my first time seeing that. ^__^ Not sure why it's infamous, it played pretty well. ^^ Zenigata sounds...normal. OO That's so wrong. Cringed a little at Goe"man". ^^; It's great to hear other versions. ^^ And especially older versions that aren't readily available anymore. ;_;

Ersatz

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Re: Castle of Cagliostro - Streamline Dub Ending
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2009, 04:58:50 pm »
I had to grab my CoC DVD, since I've only watched the dubbed version once, and yep - and this is definitely the version I have. Crikey. Guess I know what made me such a stickler for subs  :)

(click to show/hide)

I'm curious as to what the less infamous dub is like now. Must seek it out.



GodKill123

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Re: Castle of Cagliostro - Streamline Dub Ending
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2009, 05:29:17 pm »
Wolf huh...
This is the 3rd time I've heard that name in a Lupin Dub

Sad cactus

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Re: Castle of Cagliostro - Streamline Dub Ending
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2009, 07:47:15 pm »
I had to grab my CoC DVD, since I've only watched the dubbed version once, and yep - and this is definitely the version I have. Crikey. Guess I know what made me such a stickler for subs  :)

I'm curious as to what the less infamous dub is like now. Must seek it out.

The common one in the states is the Manga Entertainment dub, the one that got a lot of flack for bad language, but is pretty much mainstream, so I guess that's the less infamous one. ^^

KoichiZenigata

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Re: Castle of Cagliostro - Streamline Dub Ending
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2011, 04:31:13 am »
This link has been removed from youtube.... :(

Reed

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Re: Castle of Cagliostro - Streamline Dub Ending
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2011, 04:49:15 am »
Don't worry, it'll make an appearance again someday.

The "Cagliostro" dub is an unfortunate combination of two things. It has a mostly great dub cast but a heavily modified script. The Manga dub is sort of the opposite: outside of the "PG-13-ing-up" of the language, the script is actually pretty sharp. The cast, however, is half terrible. Jigen and Zenigata come to mind as particularly grating and awkward. Jigen wasn't anything special in the Streamline's "Cagliostro" dub (though he got a LOT better in later dubs), but at least he didn't sound like he was feigning his gruffness like in Manga's take. Oh, and don't get me started on Gustav....

So, basically, dream "Cagliostro" dub setup:

Lupin: Bob Bergen
Jigen: Richard Epcar (Streamline's VA, performing as he did in Mamo, would be good too.)
Zenigata: Streamline's VA, whose name I always forget.
Fujiko and Goemon: So few scenes it doesn't really matter.
Gustav: Streamline's VA
Count: Sounds about the same in either dub.
Jodo: Probably the Manga VA, maybe a little lighter on the bass though. He sounds way too deep for that tiny frame.
Clarisse: Her Manga VA.

Script: Somewhere between the Manga dub script (minus the extra cussing) and Michael House's surprisingly elegant subtitled script. Not everything would translate well with mouth-flap but I like the way it reads a lot of the time.
-R. Nelson

KoichiZenigata

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Re: Castle of Cagliostro - Streamline Dub Ending
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2011, 09:07:04 am »
I just downloaded a fansub that has the Streamline, Manga Entertainment and the Japanese audio. I'm going to finally listen to the Streamline to see for myself. :)

veggie 11

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Re: Castle of Cagliostro - Streamline Dub Ending
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2011, 10:03:35 am »
Even if Streamline Dub has weak points (translation, Jigen's ''boss" to Lupin, ''I'm Inspector Keibu  Zenigata''  ::)), I find him more better as the horrible Manga Entertainment dub with Jigen who sounds like a old moron who seems to always have a cough  :P

But despite everything, Goemon's voice was better in the Manga Entertainment (Richard Epcar is one of my best English dubbers  ;D)
But why Miyazaki was so obsessed to draw this horrible fringle to Jigen in EVERY Lupin anime he did?
-----------------------------------------
I decided to strike for the recognition of Jigen, Goemon and Fujiko's sacrifice in The Castle of Cagliostro

FilmmakerJ

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Re: Castle of Cagliostro - Streamline Dub Ending
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2011, 01:22:37 pm »
Well it seems a lot of you guys prefer the Streamline dub.

I can see why you don't like the Manga dub, giving it props in a few areas but still not fully supporting the vocal cast. But I don't understand why the Streamline dub is slightly more superior. I thought most of the voices were poor except for maybe Zenigata. Bob Bergen kinda comes off as a Matthew Broderick clone, and Clarisse has a terribly grading older woman voice. Though I thought the voice for Fujiko in the Streamline dub was much better than in the Manga version.

But if we forget all of the vocal differences between both dubs, the main problem comes to light, and that is the terrible scripting for the Streamline dub. Now I won't complain about any other things in that regard except this; the Streamline dub just absolutely loves to shove more and more dialogue into every shot it can when the characters are off screen. Almost as if Carl Macek thought the story wouldn't make any sense to Americans if he didn't cram in as much exposition as he possibly could into every nook and cranny. And because of all that extra dialogue, many of the slower, quieter scenes become annoying hard to watch. Thankfully the only scene that wasn't vocally bogged down was the one scene designed to be quiet, slow, and contemplative; that being the scene with Lupin walking around the garden of the burned out castle, reminiscing about Clarisse 10 years ago.

Perhaps the reason many of us are split up about which dub is better is because each of us grew up with either the Streamline or the Manga dub. And considering what I've heard from some of you, I would wager a guess that which ever dub you saw, it was also the first Lupin movie you ever watched, and it launched your further interest of the rest of the Lupin III franchise. So some of us might be biased on one version or another. And I suppose if I watched my Streamline copy again, I might be able to pick out the pros, as well as the cons, compared to it's Manga counterpart.

But for now, I still prefer the Manga dub.

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Re: Castle of Cagliostro - Streamline Dub Ending
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2011, 10:42:44 pm »
Well, I know you're not as angry as he was, but in his teenage years, Carl Horn, now a much more experienced anime fan, had some harsh words to say about the "Cagliostro" dub and shared them over Usenet back in the early 90's.

To provide some context, here are some modern comments about his rant Carl shared with me:
Quote
I remember getting pretty mad about the Streamline dub ( "oh, it's all so f**ked up!" was my conclusion) when I reviewed it in 1993, and dialogue changes were a major part. Looking back, I can't help but feel I showed a certain hypocrisy in my assessment of Streamline dubs, since I had been a big fan of Robotech, even though I knew the series was made from three unrelated anime. Arguably, what Carl Macek did in creating Robotech was more radical than any changes here or there in a single film. The difference simply was that, in the case of Robotech, I wasn't already a fan of the original series and thus didn't have an opinion of what they "should" sound like, whereas with such Streamline-dubbed anime as Megazone Two Three, Golgo 13, and Cagliostro, I was already a fan of the Japanese version.

Um, here's the 1993 review, Note the early-90s music references ^_^ and generally pissed-off otaku tone. I might have tried to write it with a little more finesse today. I'm also not so sure about the paragraph where I talk about the budget of the adaptation. It probably cost more than $4,000 ^_^

And here's the MASSIVE rant itself. I encourage you to read through it, as it's just as entertaining as it is inflammatory.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.anime/msg/eed1d055b7e619dd?

My favorite part is probably this line:
Quote
13.) "I can't let the Princess marry that jerk!" I'd say he's a little
more than a jerk. This is "Lupin III," not "Archie."
-R. Nelson

KoichiZenigata

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Re: Castle of Cagliostro - Streamline Dub Ending
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2011, 12:44:58 am »
Here are my thoughts on the Streamline dub:

http://lupinthe3rdhasapodcast.mypodcast.com/index.html

FilmmakerJ

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Re: Castle of Cagliostro - Streamline Dub Ending
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2011, 10:10:45 am »
Well, I know you're not as angry as he was, but in his teenage years, Carl Horn, now a much more experienced anime fan, had some harsh words to say about the "Cagliostro" dub and shared them over Usenet back in the early 90's.

Actually I'm fairly angry about it. I just thought that...maybe this time I should try being less angry and point out only a few problems, lest I get an angry rebuttle from one of you other guys, lol.

It's a little hard to tell where angry comments are okay or even welcome, and where I should probably hold myself back incase I get a backlash of opposing comments.

However, my real feelings about the Streamline dub are this: The script is terrible. There are expository lines added to make the story more clear, but said lines are added into parts of the film that should be completely silents, thus making the whole films just talk and talk and f--king talk. Some of the actors don't sound great, like Jodo, or Goemon; Jodo sounded cooler to me when he was played by the same guy as Moneybags from "Spyro 2," (when I made that connection, I thought it was awesome). And above all, Clarisse sounds just terrible, because she's being played by an actress who's sounding much older than 17-18, and they way she performs her lines is hilarious. But some of the actors are okay or even better than in the Manga version, like Fujiko and Zenigata. As for Lupin, again, I'm on the fence about him.

But above all, I think the biggest atrocity to the whole film, in the Streamline version, is the terrible butchery of the opening title sequence. As I referred to it when I watched it the first time, the early Manga release got it right, and just left all of the opening titles intact, shoving the English crew titles to the back where they belong. The second Manga release messed it up by turning the whole thing into a slideshow. But that's nothing compared to Streamline. Streamline actually had the gall to turn the whole sequence into a power point presentation, where the images are cut up, cropped, and shoved around, just to make room for the terribly super imposed English titles of the Japanese and English crew.

That title sequence is probably the thing that pissed me off the most.

Maybe somethings about this dub are better, but only when you look real close. From an entertainment perspective where you suspend your disbelief, it is a very hard thing to watch without complaining. That is why I think the (early, 2000) Manga release is the superior version.


By the way, I will definitely check out that Rant sometime. I'm interested in someone elses harsh opinion, lol.

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Re: Castle of Cagliostro - Streamline Dub Ending
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2011, 11:41:28 am »
And here I was hoping you'd read it before replying. Instead you mostly just repeated things that were in it. Thanks anyway.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2011, 11:41:45 am by Lupin the Third »
-R. Nelson

FilmmakerJ

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Re: Castle of Cagliostro - Streamline Dub Ending
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2011, 12:52:28 pm »
And here I was hoping you'd read it before replying. Instead you mostly just repeated things that were in it. Thanks anyway.

Alright, alright, I have now read it. And he does cover everything I said, but in a more artistic way, taking in everything that Cagliostro was designed to be, and taking all of the original dialogue that was intended, and comparing that to what Streamline had shat out instead.

I only wanted to write what I had personally seen and felt as I watched it, before reading what someone else did, even if that other person said very similar things. That's all.

If I thought I'd be writing as much as Carl Horn did, I would have read his rant before writing mine, lest I post a near copy to his and waste a hell of a lot of space.


Anyway, it seems interesting that there were some people back in the 80s who were well aware of Cagliostro's existence, and were interested in seeing it get a high quality US theatrical release, with Hollywood actors no less; though I don't think I would have ever considered Tom Hanks for Lupin, his voice is too Tenner. I think I would've liked to see the big budget dub, if it had actually been made. But I'm more than quite content with the early Manga release. It is my favorite film of all time after all.